[SolarfluX]

How do you feel about the value of computer/network/OS-related certifications? I mentioned a certification that I'm preparing for in another thread and it's becoming an interesting discussion, so I thought I should create its own topic and get some more feedback. Here's are the initial posts along with my current response:

In other news, I passed Solaris System Administrator Exam I on Friday, which is why I haven't been around as of late. Now it's onto studying for Exam II which I hope to take within 2 weeks. If only there was a BSD certification...

*BSD ceritification == Getting everything working, in OpenBSD -current, running send mail, with a monkey that's knows your root password, and testing out personal kernel hacks written in part binary and assembly, if you can get that stuff working that's all the certs you need :lol:

On a more serious note now.... *BSD obviously doesn't have certs as it's not mainstream, hell probably more then 40 percent of all web servers online run Solaris. And while around 15 percent do run Linux that's not a big enough majority to warrant it a decent Cert (I've heard L+ is crap, Most CompTIA tests are...), so I doubt that until the time Linux gets a decent cert, *BSD will be waaay behind...

I had planned on getting this cert a few years back (before I moved to BSD):
SAIR Linux and GNU Certification (http://www.linuxcertification.org)

The dumbasses have their links pointing to linuxcertification.com instead of .org, pretty funny...

I doubt there ever will be a BSD certification...

Plus, what good would *BSD certs do? So you have another cert, the bosses ahve no idea what the hell it does (or do they know what on the certs do? :D) and it's not getting you anywhere, I'd just rather study for the hell of knowing of the OS, it'll get you farther (</opinion>)

you'll find that any piece of paper that says you're a genius will greatly help you. Also, the people that need to know about these qualifications, WILL know about them :)

Vlad: actually, I was joking about the BSD cert, as very few companies actively look for BSD-proficient candidates. As far as the value of certifications in general, my old 4.0 MCSE helped me get a new job making 13K more and that was before I even finished it. I received another 3K raise after I finished it. I probably used about 20% or less of the knowledge that I learned for those exams. It's pretty worthless nowadays and I have no intention of getting any more MS certs. I had a bunch of BrainBench certs too that helped me get another job after that, another 10K raise.

If two people with identical experience are candidates for the same job, certs are the tiebreaker. Most companies usually give nice raises when you get certified on anything that's related to your job. If I'm looking to hire one college kid with a CS degree and I have to choose between one that just has a degree and one that has a degree plus a number of certifications in areas that are important to the position, the certified candidate will get the job. Even high school students (hint, hint) who have certs stand a better chance of getting scholarships, and will enhance college students' internship opportunities.

One more thing certification exams are good for is testing your ability to handle stressful situations, and taking an exam is pretty stressful. However, compared to the MS exams, I had almost no pressure taking the SCSA I exam.

So, Vlad, don't discount certifications.

splick: I wouldn't go so far as to say that certs prove you're a genius... but they do show that you have the ability to learn new things and demonstrate an acceptable level of knowledge of those topics, according to the companies that offer the certifications.

[Kernel_Killer]

Certs are a great thing to have. A lot of businesses around here are requiring CompTIA based certifications for entry-level positions, and CCNAs for Network Engineer jobs (They say CCNP, but they take are just trying to get more than the job asks for). The RHCE is good for Linux users. Seems a lot of the RHCE's get picked up almost immediately. As for the Linux LPIs, I have no idea.

On the security side, thanks the BSDjunkie for pointing them out, the GIAC certs are great security certifications to have. A lot more respectable than the CISSP, and there isn't a requirement to take them AFAIK.

Having a Bachelor's is a good thing, but the degree doesn't prove knowledge in a particular area what so ever. With a certification, it's not a problem. I can't say doing just the cerifications are good, but one of my clients and a good friend who is a VC for a bank told me about a guy he knew that only had certifications, and couldn't find a job due to the lack of the degree. Eventually he got picked up for a $100,000/year job. :shock:

[SolarfluX]

I was thinking of getting a CISSP, but I started reading one of the prep books and it was SOOOO BORRRRING. Not to mention that the prerequisite requirements have increased. Will have to look into the GIAC certs. Thanks, K_K.

[Former Member]

I'm down for a CCNA soon, just waiting in line, though I hear CCIE's are more respected and are favoured by employers.
I think certs are a definate for any serious techie, as KK pointed out, degrees don't gauruntee knowledge in a particular area, whereas certs do. I'm certainly going to have a few :)

[v902]

Vlad: actually, I was joking about the BSD cert, as very few companies actively look for BSD-proficient candidates. As far as the value of certifications in general, my old 4.0 MCSE helped me get a new job making 13K more and that was before I even finished it. I received another 3K raise after I finished it. I probably used about 20% or less of the knowledge that I learned for those exams. It's pretty worthless nowadays and I have no intention of getting any more MS certs. I had a bunch of BrainBench certs too that helped me get another job after that, another 10K raise.

Ah, sorry :oops:, you speak of these Ks', how much is that in lunch money?? :P

If two people with identical experience are candidates for the same job, certs are the tiebreaker. Most companies usually give nice raises when you get certified on anything that's related to your job. If I'm looking to hire one college kid with a CS degree and I have to choose between one that just has a degree and one that has a degree plus a number of certifications in areas that are important to the position, the certified candidate will get the job. Even high school students (hint, hint) who have certs stand a better chance of getting scholarships, and will enhance college students' internship opportunities.

Kinda stupid too, doesn't say anything, I truely can't even afford CompTIA test... And tests like Ciscos' you have to re-take every 2 years which means more of a financial drain, of course it's good if you go CCNA + 2 years + CCNP + 2 years + CISSP, if that's the way it goes, I'm not really into Cisco certs. Meh, I plan on getting along my devilishly good albino-like looks in college :lol:


One more thing certification exams are good for is testing your ability to handle stressful situations, and taking an exam is pretty stressful. However, compared to the MS exams, I had almost no pressure taking the SCSA I exam.

So, Vlad, don't discount certifications.

Or that you're just good/bad at taking tests, truely I'm good at 'em, I can know nothing about it but still good grades (80-90 is pretty good with no study :)) so it doesn't mean much, maybe on a technical one it means more... I ain't discounting 'em for learning maybe but as for applications asking them different questions I would rather think be a better tie breaker

Kernel_Killer: The only problem I have with GIACs' is that again, they're bi-yearly and that means money drain....

[SolarfluX]

Vlad: everyone's entitled to their own opinions. I'm just telling what I've experienced, so others can benefit from it... If you choose to ignore it, well that's ok, too. As far as the cost of certifications, yes they are expensive for someone who's still in high school, in college or even unemployed, but the ROI (Return On Investment) is definitely worth it. Most companies will pay for training and reimburse you for prep materials and the exams.

Another benefit of certs is that when an HR person is looking at hundreds of resumes, you have to make yours stand out from the rest. Certs really do catch the eye of prospective employers and can get you an interview alone. Especially when experience related to the position is lacking. Then when you interview, having a professional appearance and building a rapport quickly with the interviewer(s) goes a long way towards winning the battle (getting the position).

Yet another benefit is that having certs gives notice to prospective employers that you are willing to go above and beyond to learn new technologies.

[Kernel_Killer]

I'm down for a CCNA soon, just waiting in line, though I hear CCIE's are more respected and are favoured by employers.

CCNA and the CCNP is where it's at. As for the CCIE, I hear there is one hell of a failure rate on that test.

Vlad. Looks like we share the same artist who drew your avatar. :D

[v902]

SolarfluX: Well I've got a bid of a jade edge towards all certs mainly because I can't afford many, but if you say the ROI is good I'll look into it (later)... :)

Kernel_Killer: And so we do :)

[thedude]

I took MCSA and MCSE and those exams taught me a little but CCNA was a far better learning experience. However, to my great surprise one of the MCSE exams was far harder than the others, even the CCNA. I'm looking forward to getting out of the military and seeing if any of my hard work has paid off. I did the Microsoft stuff as general learning/padding of the resume. I've been concentrating on the Open Source stuff for over a year because it's what I believe in and enjoy.

[Kernel_Killer]

Which MCSE exam was the bas one? I hear 70-218 is pretty rough.

[thedude]

70-216 whipped my ass. It's just pass or fail. I have no idea how I passed. My brain was Jell-O afterwards. 70-218 was pretty easy. Lot of Active Directory stuff. Stay away from 216. There's other choices.

[Kernel_Killer]

I will definatly avoid 70-216. I only plan to do the MCSA, eventully (Cisco and LPI first). Good thing it only needs 218 for a infrastructure exam. I know one person that took 216, but was really into the exam and passed easy.

[tarballed]

I'll chime in here...

Being as that I have only seriously been involved with computers for about 2 years now, I had no idea on which route to take when I started getting involved.

I graduated College with a degree in History and a Minor in English. It's a long story as to why I chose computers, but in a nutshell, if I continued my path I originally had intended to take, I would still be in school and only half way done. The other major factor is that my school loans would continue to pile up and I did not want that...

SOOO! I jumped into the IT field following the recommendation of a friend. As I said, this was around late 2000, early 2001 so I had no idea what to get involved with. To be honest, the only thing I knew was Windows and Cisco.

Thus, I signed up for a course to become an MCSE and CCNA. :)
Needless to say, I took the classes, studied my azz off and become an MCSE and CCNA...(I could start another thread entirely on what I think about this now...maybe I will.)

Anyway, I took the following MCSE tests:

70-210
70-215
70-216
70-217
70-219 (Designing)
70-222 (migration)
70-224 (exchange)

By far, 216 takes the cake as being very brutal. I barely passed it. From what I know now after taking that test, the only way you can really make heads or tails of it or even find it somewhat easy is to really have real world experience, which I did not have.

Anyway, here I am now, Linux/Unix dude. I find this field much more satisfying and rewarding. Personally, I think Linux/Unix admins are far more resourceful and knowledgeable over Windows Admins...But, that is what seperates the men from the boys eh?

[Kernel_Killer]

As much as I hate to persue getting the MCSA certs, it's an invaluable asset around here. UNIx and Linux jobs all require knowledge of Solaris, AIX, POSIX implementation, and high level certifications such as the CCNP. Needless to say, even having the certifications, they want 2 year experience. Not exactly a job you can jump into for an entry-level job. Thus, leaving one option, start at the bottom with the Win users. Maybe I need to move.

[Kernel_Killer]

Just to let anyone know that is planning to take the CCNA, they have now split the test in two parts if you wish to take it that way. Also the curriculum has changed a bit. There is a bit more on VLANs, and SANs. The new test has changed from 640-607 to 640-801.